[Suggestion] Separate Solo and General talent points

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• 14 Sep, '21
  Psy

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  This is fine as it is, as the buffs on the Solo talent tree are more powerful than those in other trees. So, any points spent here give a big bang for the buck. It's a way to boost solo players. If it changes to everyone getting access to the solo tree, then there will be no advantage for solo players. I guess you build a character for group play and another character for solo play.

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• 29 Aug, '21
  Chickensalt

  I feel there is should more points per level. 1 point spread over 12 trees is kinda crazy. Also respec option would be good to. At a cost and timer.
  I understand about wanting this to people to specialize and play together but thats just not going to happen all the time.

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• 30 Aug, '21
  Fenixtorador Merged

  I think they might have something like this in the release, but it would cost exotics most likely.

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• 06 Sep, '21
  Elissa - Producer System

  "Talent and techReset in space" (suggested by Alexander on 2021-08-29), including upvotes (5) and comments (1), was merged into this suggestion.

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• 11 Sep, '21
  Shoppy

  My friend joined me without asking first so now my entire talent tree is worthless.... sad times :(

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• 12 Sep, '21
  Element_None

  That is exactly the suggestion I was proposing in discord. I totally agree make it s Lone Wolf (From Divinity), When you level up you gain 2 points instead of 1. One of them goes to the Multiplayer (General trees) the other goes to the Single Player (SOLO) tree. If you are alone on the prospect you benefit from both Multiplayer and Solo tree, but the moment someone joins into the Prospect you lose all benefits from Solo tree until you are alone on the map again.
  
  This would offset some of benefits of group play for people that like to solo. Which would be helpful.
  
  Also, as you mentioned - more points would be desirable overall since this is a Single - Player with Drop - in multiplayer game, more choice would be more fun.

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• 12 Sep, '21
  Dane

  Definitely feel like there should be more talent points per level. Otherwise your build ends up being super specialised.

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• 14 Sep, '21
  Sortul

  I think at least one 'solo' point per level and one , or two, general points would be ideal.

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• 14 Sep, '21
  Gregorri Davion

  I would offer a suggestion to have a system where you can have a character flagged specifically for Solo play where you get increased Talent and Tech points. If you choose a character as a Solo character you cannot play with others. Just an Idea to have best of both worlds

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• 14 Sep, '21
  420inPortland

  I don't know why people seem to think they SHOULD be able to do everything all by themselves. This is a COOP game. There are multiple Character slots, spec one out for COOP and one for SOLO. Not EVERY character SHOULD be able to do EVERYthing in EVERY mode. You're gonna need to specialize. One would hope that the solo tree will be locked out in COOP play to begin with. I had assumed that it was just implemented for group play during the Beta to bug test, and would then be locked out at launch unless playing solo on that character, and you wouldn't be able to take that character into group play anyway.

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• 14 Sep, '21
  Prybar Bas

  Having a split talent pool for Co-op and Solo, would greatly benefit 'casual' players who want a less brutal survival experience when they play solo and not feel like they wast skill points. Even if you don't opt to use these points, to keep the game more challenging , they will be awfully tempting to spend and use. So I'm certain users will also want to be able to keep things as the currently are or disable this whole separate solo tree and separated talent points idea.
  
  Early on, the solo talent skill tree made the game experience less harsh for myself, but now that I'm known with many of the game mechanic's I'm leaning more and more towards creating a new character and not spending any skills in that solo skill tree at all.

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• 14 Sep, '21
  Grumpy Grizzly

  420inPortland
  "I don't know why people seem to think they SHOULD be able to do everything all by themselves. This is a COOP game."
  -I disagree. I believe it's appropriately labeled as a survival game. To survive, you HAVE to be able to do everything alone. Co-op is just a bonus.
  
  "There are multiple Character slots, spec one out for COOP and one for SOLO."
  -Then what happens when someone drops in on your solo game? I'm not a group player but from what I've read, your carefully balanced talent spec gets invalidated. This does not seem conducive to multiplayer to me. Neither does having to build a character twice.
  
  "Not EVERY character SHOULD be able to do EVERYthing in EVERY mode."
  -Specialists are not flexible enough. It's kind of like saying if you choose a bow, you should not be able to use a spear. IRL, people cross-train other positions on military equipment and NASA spacecraft specifically for this reason. You simply can't ignore most categories but one without a severe deficit.

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• 14 Sep, '21
  Stormfury

  Even ignoring the solo tree, it's impossible to get what you want for having combat and professions. In my ticket, I suggested 1 pt in combat tab and 1 pt in a profession tab. This way your not screwed for being the farmer, gatherer or builder of your team. Solo throws a whole other wrinkle into this issue. I kind of feel like a solo character should be chosen at the beginning and simply have a 'solo' tree with no other options and unable to join MP games. I realize this isn't going to be popular as some folks might like to do both solo and group play. However it's confusing knowing if/when solo tree takes effect. One of the other problems with solo tree are the fact that some techs are gated behind talents. So you cannot easily complete the solo tree and unlock all techs for items.
  
  Talents is an area that really needs to be rethought and redesigned IMO. I've seen several suggestions ranging to more points to per use trees thrown around. Hopefully this can be changed soon.

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• 15 Sep, '21
  Falconburger

  How about starting with 6 points, 3 every level and milestone giving 6 instead of 3 points level 5,10,15 etc?

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• 15 Sep, '21
  [SIX] Six6VI

  I'm all for specialisation in the combat trees, giving the option to build a tank OR ranged damage dealer and I've seen this done effectively in games like Fallen Earth however, all characters are going to benefit from points in healing ability since if the rest of the squad gets wiped you're not going to be able to predict who's left to try to find / revive them or what meds you might need.
  
  In terms of resource gathering and building, I can see everyone wanting to research wood, stone, concrete etc regardless if it's a team character or a solo build that's basically dedicated to their Outpost where they're not going to be hunting exotics or researching the means to travel vast distances to collect them.
  
  What may be a happy medium is to apply a multiplier to a talent that currently has two or three point spend slots such that it's effectiveness is automatically doubled if there are no other players present in that prospect and the net benefit is automatically halved for two or more?

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• 15 Sep, '21
  tsubodai

  Regarding talents: I personally like having a Solo tree that I can choose to put my points into in order to support my playstyle. I make the decision to be potentially weaker in a group setting in order to be more effective when I'm alone. And if you don't spec Solo, it's not like you are hamstrung, you'd still be able to complete all the same tasks as a solo-speced player, just a little less efficiently.
  
  Regarding BPs: I think the 3 points per level was plenty during BW1, but BW2 has introduced a whole slew of new, necessary things that we need (anvil, mortar, steel bloom etc) without increasing the number of points available (until max level, but I dont think that is the long term intention?). I think a solo player should have to choose what to prioritise (do I skip crossbows? maybe I dont get thatch), but I hope that the devs take care not to remove any choice that solo players have because there are so many "necessary" BPs that need to be taken.

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• 15 Sep, '21
  lil.pipsqueak

  Instead of seeing duplicate talents for a solo build vs a coop build, I'd rather see the talents have a solo-perk activated if it's a solo session. Example, I noticed there was a health talent for solo and non-solo. Why not merge those. So lvl 1 of the talent was something like +10 health if in coop, but +25 if solo. Just my two cents.

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• 16 Sep, '21
  Sean Maxwell

  I think this it is good the way they have it. they do let us level up three different characters. so you can have one for solo, and another for multiplayer, and then the third you can go how ever you want. I like that they are not making the game a cake walk. I think it needs to be harder in certain areas. This is great, making the game super easy is going to turn hardcore gamers off.

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• 19 Sep, '21
  Mortis

  Also --- it should be made clear that SOLO is for SOLO play only in the menu. Also, it would be nice to know, but I am assuming at any point you have someone to join u it is forever multiplayer. I could be wrong, but we need clarification.

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• 26 Sep, '21
  stormfury

  This makes so much sense. Then your not punished playing either multiplayer or solo. And you can do both.

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• 27 Sep, '21
  John

  If you wanted to separate the trees, I could imagine one being like a 'core' tree, while the others are more like 'specialization' trees. +1 core and +(1-2) spec talent points per level?

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• 27 Sep, '21
  Indigo

  From Discord
  
  SmashT | Community Mod — 09/25/2021
  The solo talent tree works in both solo and multiplayer, however your gained XP will differ. https://discord.com/channels/715761957667602502/890376910067081226/891098572743909426

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• 27 Sep, '21
  Psy

  It's pretty fast to level up a character. So, people can just create multiple characters for different roles. That gives the game more replay-ability.

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• 28 Sep, '21
  Charles S

  Have solo point increase as you do things, I creases health the more you combat and survive, increase sprint speed the more you run around , etc instead of being based off level

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• 28 Sep, '21
  Chris

  I was under the impression the "solo" tree works in multiplayer as well. If it doesn't, then it should as it's not really OP at all. Maybe just rename it to something else where people don't misunderstand it.
  The games focused on PvE multiplayer though, so just having a tree that becomes useless for the main vision of the game is silly =), pretty sure it's active and just needs a rename.

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• 29 Sep, '21
  Sigil

  I 100% agree with this suggestion. I will likely play about half/half with friends and solo and splitting talents between multi player and solo will gimp both outcomes. It seems that the only efficient talent pick is when your either playing always with friends or always solo. This doesnt make sense :)

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• 02 Oct, '21
  PDXdad

  Please leave current setup as is. No reason people can't just make a character for solo play and 1 (or more) for co-op play. Friend wants to join you? Return to main menu and jump on your co-op character. To follow the OP's suggestion, a player could do numerous missions co-op, bank up a ton of Solo points, then play Solo with an advantage that would defeat most of the challenge (and FUN!) of playing solo. If you feel the game is hard playing solo, that is because it is supposed to be. You will have your outpost if you want an easy-mode sandbox to run amok in.

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• 09 Oct, '21
  Onndrea

  @PDXdad ... But you can't take another character on your account into the same mission
  
  I play a lot of solo but I also play some multiplayer. The idea that most of my talents won't work in multiplayer and/or that I should somehow have different characters is not a good one. The suggestion has nothing to do with people wanting to make solo play easy or 'running amok' in single player. The one problem at the moment is that there aren't enough points to spend purely in the solo tree by the time you reach current beta level caps so you will have some points placed outside of the solo tree. If the idea is going to work there should be completely separate solo and multiplayer trees that only work when you are i the respective type of game

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• 25 Oct, '21
  Pczdemon

  Agree with having a separate solo tree from the normal skill tree, that has its own point pool, and active when no other users in session / auto-disabled when 1 or more people in sessions.
  
  As with many PVE games, there will be a large section of the community that either wants to heavily play by themselves at their own pace or occassionally wants to play solo or with friends. Either way, we shouldn't be penalized for wanting to play differently from day to day. Having the ability to respec your trees during a prospect mission (ex: at the transport ship) could fix this as well.

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• 08 Nov, '21
  Michael Wynne

  Instead of having them completely separate just have an alter (Talent)-Solo Tab beside Tech and Talent. Then from the mission select screen have an option to turn on the mission as a solo mission that no-one can join and have it use that tree instead of the normal one. This would balance it and probably simplify the coding a bit or you could remove solo completely from the normal tree.

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• 16 Nov, '21
  Danny Hendrich

  Hello everyone.
  This game should be doable solo. Otherwise I personally would NOT play it. I am currently playing Fallout 76, including the beta, I have over 5200 hours of play there. I played well over half of that solo and achieved everything. It wasn't easy at the beginning.!
  Why even alone: ​​My friends, whom I choose myself, are not always online at my times. Then why should I jump to someone I don't know ... ??
  As it is now and is also considered / desired as a suggestion above, I would find it OK. Extra points for solo + team. When playing in a team, the solo tree should not count or only count as a percentage.
  As a team player, I would also like to be able to build and / or level everything myself. No specialization for team members.
  I can certainly create several characters (in F76 I have 5). Just why should I do this at the beginning. Nobody has that much time. At least nobody I know as a friend. Some friends only have one.

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• 18 Nov, '21
  DreadPirate

  I had the same idea about Solo and MP Talent points as most in this thread.
  I think the game would benefit from focusing on the MP Talent trees, but solo players do need a boost.
  With that in mind I like the idea of having a separate pool of talent points that you can spend on solo boosts (maybe not talents, but boosts to other talents you have in your MP tree... with a few outlier options).
  
  Things like a boost in stamina when you are solo, a boost in health when you are solo can be unlocked but also things like "Resourcefulness - decrease component requirement for recipes by 10% when solo" or "Stealthyness - When solo, threat generation is reduced by 30%" (You should be quieter in the area if it's only you, right?).

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• 18 Nov, '21
  DreadPirate

  Another option might be that when a player chooses to launch a new prospect, they can choose to launch it as a Solo Prospect. When doing so it disables other players from Joining their session and gives them a choice of mission to run, then a choice of what Solo Boosts they want. This will allow players to customize their solo play to their preferred playstyle.
  
  At any time the solo player can return to their drop pod and radio back to the station that they are a ready for other prospectors to join (open the session to MP) at that time they lose their solo boosts and the session cannot be converted back into a solo session (They would have to leave the prospect and launch a new solo session from the station)
  
  Just brainstorming, but it could be an interesting system.

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• 03 Dec, '21
  K.

  Would agree with the original suggestion here. The game loop is already about going back out there for the next mission and repeat. If you, in addition to that, have to do it twice, once for your solo character and once for you multiplayer character, then it's can be quite demotivating for more casual players and/or people who often play at very odd hours like myself but would love to play with friends when they do get the occasional opportunity.

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• 06 Dec, '21
  greenkiller56

  First, I do believe a character should be playable in both solo and multi as it helps alleviate the need to have two characters for the same experience. Dying is punishing enough which I like.
  Also, I think that the solo skills should be separate and as such, gain solo experience as it is just that, experience for playing solo to gain skills for solo play. I know it would take a rework of the skill coding, but it'd be nice to see. Are there other ways to tackle it, of course.

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• 06 Dec, '21
  RossBoss

  I also think that having 1 point per level is a little thin to build out a decent character on. Unless you play with other people all the time, you are going to constantly be underpowered when it comes to solo survival. There are 12 ability trees and even if you have the maximum amount of players in your drop, you are still missing some benefits. I would recommend one of two things: First, allow enough skill points to max out 2 full tree sections, OR you could max out one section and then if the player chooses, they can reallocate their points for each different drop.
  
  Next, I definitely want a skill point/tech tree reset. If you place even one point in the wrong place, you aren't able to complete certain quests.

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• 07 Dec, '21
  Roji

  I had to make 3 characters: one for solo, one for playing with friends and one for outposts.
  Feels a waste of time but I need to choose my blueprints carefully.
  We should have Outpost's charaters that can only join outposts and have all unlocked.

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• 07 Dec, '21
  Shannon

  Solo points are great for solo players. But agree that if they want to trek with a friend is sort of punishing to force them to make a new character.
  
  You already HAVE to replay the game EACH AND EVERY mission. Why force Making a new character too?
  
  I feel it's a good way to burn out your player base quickly as people are going to get VERY tired of having to literally replay the ENTIRE game All the Flip Flapping time.

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• 11 Dec, '21
  Blackstone

  I don't think there should be two sets of points at all. Just make the multiplayer points better and delete the solo tree. Maybe give a 5 or 10% bonus if a group is detected. Why punish players for playing solo by screwing with the trees and forcing us to make two characters?

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• 18 Dec, '21
  Mark Faulkner

  Solo talents should be a bonus for when you're playing alone to counter the massive advantages of group play. It definitely takes longer to complete missions when solo so having the ability to boost health, stamina, runspeed, gathering/mining returns when playing solo whilst still preserving your multiplayer skills should be an option for when playing solo ONLY.

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• 29 Dec, '21
  Dave

  Here to add my view that ditching the solo tree altogether would be the best option, but have the normal talents apply a beneficial multiplier when solo.
  
  Most co-op games automatically balance the experience when solo, this shouldn't be any different. Solo players shouldn't be forced into spending additional talent points just to balance the game.

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• 29 Dec, '21
  Nick

  Completely agree with this suggestion. After playing over 100+ hours in Beta and now in the release, the solo talent tree is completely pointless since the point system is shared with with the general talent tree. They should be separated so that you actually receive some type of enhancement while you're playing solo due to the exponential diminishing returns for every coop person that leaves or never joins your prospect.

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• 31 Dec, '21
  Russell Merged

  Since Solo talents only take effect in Single player, to spec to them is a waste valueable talents in multiplayer, the result is players will not use this character in multiplayer, or if they need help on their mission they can not call in a friend, they will just have to quit the mission, making this character effectively useless.
  
  I think separating the SOLO skills into a different pool of talents is a better idea, maybe the prospect gets a solo talent point to choose every 2 or 3 levels, this will encourage people to use any 3 of their characters in solo or multiplayer.

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• 31 Dec, '21
  Bjorn Merged

  I'll take the opportunity to use this ticket to bump an old one here: https://icarus.featureupvote.com/suggestions/205229/suggestion-separate-solo-and-general-talent-points

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• 02 Jan, '22
  Arttu Mahlakaarto

  Also when having only limited time to play due to work and other real-life stuff, there is just not enough time to level up 2 characters, 1 for solo and 1 for multiplayer, so this would be a really nice addition to the game

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• 06 Jan, '22
  stb155

  My opinon after 70h solo, don't just seperate the solo tree by giving it own points.
  Either just fully enable it for solo players from the start, or scrap it all together and replace it with something else that actually helps*.
  Cause even when fully unlocked, it barely makes a dent in all the extra difficulties you face as solo player.
  But it robs you of any chance to get good in some other skills, since lvl40 cap.
  
  And i have to ask:
  Which genious came up with the idea to trade precious skill points to unlimited blueprint points ?!?
  
  *my bigest problems solo
  - Inventory slots/carry capacity/only 1 "G spot"
  - missions have ZERO scaling for solo/group difficulty
  - combat, so much weaker alone, and if you die, it is 100times worse than in coop.
  - light, so anoying that you have to choose between holding torch to see anything, or doing anything.
  
  
  
  Did play all my 70h so far solo.

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• 07 Jan, '22
  Kruz

  Rather than separating solo/general talent points. There are some talent points that are designed to help allies or get benefits from group play. There could probably be a way to set that up as a single/multiplayer tree and if single player get X bonus, if multiplayer get X bonus.

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• 07 Jan, '22
  Noone special

  yea frankly the talent limit is a little ridiculous. Obviously we shouldn't be able to have everything, but as it stands the talent limit is not even able to fill the resource tree on the survival page, which takes up to 56 points when you only have 48. If you are careful, you might be able to get 1 or 2 trees to a reasonable degree, avoiding anything that isn't super necessary. The level cap should really be taken away. Reward players who survive through so many missions without dying and losing their character... remove the level cap, or remove the tiering talents so each only takes a single point, 2 points at most.

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• 12 Jan, '22
  Macdallan

  I'd prefer that they simply remove the solo tree. It's too powerful and if you're thinking about playing MP with a character you won't touch it anyway. It's basically only good for solo players who need the extra boost. I've only played solo and haven't touched that tree on any of my characters, nor will I.
  
  I don't think they should add more talent points, and if players decide to spend points in both trees then the consequence for that decision is that they'll be slightly weaker in multiplayer. Honestly the talents don't make that much of a difference, and you can accomplish everything with zero talents anyway, so I don't see why it's such a big issue.

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• 08 Feb, '22
  BigKid

  Yes - please give special and sperate talent points for the solo tree - probably as reward for solo play only.
  I would even go so far that it would be ok to keep solo and group chars seperated if thats easier to implement.
  Currently its no good idea to spec a char to do both anyways...

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